Whether you already live near the coast or are traveling from the interior of the U.S. to visit an ocean this summer, it's always important to be safe and aware of your surroundings.
Randy Townsend is the chief of the Harvey Cedars, New Jersey, Beach Patrol and an accomplished surfer. He discusses how to spot potential dangers lurking beneath the surface, the differences between rip currents and undertow, the best time of day to swim as well as stories from his time catching waves as a surfer.
Episode preview
About the Across the Sky podcast. The weekly weather podcast is hosted on a rotation by the Lee Weather team: Matt Holiner of Lee Enterprises' Midwest group in Chicago, Kirsten Lang of the Tulsa World in Oklahoma, Joe Martucci of the Press of Atlantic City, N.J., and Sean Sublette of the Richmond Times-Dispatch in Virginia.
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About the Across the Sky podcast
The weekly weather podcast is hosted on a rotation by the Lee Weather team:
Matt Holiner of Lee Enterprises' Midwest group in Chicago, Kirsten Lang of the Tulsa World in Oklahoma, Joe Martucci of the Press of Atlantic City, N.J., and Sean Sublette of the Richmond Times-Dispatch in Virginia.
Episode transcript
Note: The following transcript was created by Adobe Premiere and may contain misspellings and other inaccuracies as it was generated automatically:
Welcome, everybody to the Across the Sky podcast, Lee Enterprises National Weather Podcast. New episodes come out every Monday. Hope you all enjoy your 4th of July. It got a little dicey there with the 4th of July hot dog eating contest. Of course, that was our last episode on Across the Sky. They were in a lightning. The for, I think was the first time ever.
But they they came through this week. Our episode here a little bit different. We're not talking about hot dogs. We're talking about the water and we're talking about ocean safety and making sure that you're enjoying whether it's the bay, the ocean, and making sure you're staying safe as well. Being that it is July and August, we're all taking off.
We're all going on vacation. So we have Randy Townsend. He has the Harvey Cedars, New Jersey, lifeguard chief, also an internationally known surfer, to talk all about that. But we have Kirsten Kirsten lying back on the podcast as well. She is joining us after a couple of months away on maternity leave. Kirsten, it's great to have you back.
How's it going? How is the family?
Well, thanks. You know, it's good to be back. It's good to get kind of back in the saddle and start working again. And, you know, being here with the podcast, I'm happy. Glad I missed it. Missed you guys. And doing this every week. And things are going good here in the house. I mean, it's a little chaotic. We just added our third kid to the mix.
So that's, you know, it's a lot to juggle. But overall, everything's going very, very good. We're pretty blessed here.
Awesome stuff. You know, we we certainly missed you in your way, but we know you were, you know, enjoying some time with the family as well. With that being said, we're going to get right into our interview here with Randy Townsend on the other side. And I am pleased to have on Randy Townsend today to talk all about marine and ocean and wave safety.
Randy is a friend of mine. He is based right here in New Jersey. He is the beach patrol chief for the Harvey Cedars Beach Patrol. He's also been a competitive surfer going all across the planet. Really. You can check out some of his videos on YouTube. And he is an ocean safety expert. Randy, great to talk to you here.
We're talking the year right after the 4th of July. How are you feeling now that we're really getting into peak, You know, summertime, people headed to the shore. How are you feeling? How your crew's feeling over in Harvey Cedars?
Thanks for the wonderful introduction, Joe Tickled to be here again with you on your podcast and another interview as well, how I'm feeling and how our staff is feeling here today. We're absolutely elated to be up there on the beach providing, you know, public safety to, you know, the public up there on a daily basis. Conditions, obviously, you would know the best since you are a meteorologist.
Saba In my eyes, we just turned the corner here for us a little bit late into the game. Waters finally warming up here today and the seven seats up there on the beach. So we're absolutely elated to be up there, especially on such a beautiful day.
Yeah. And, you know, we have a big Jersey flair with this, but it has been it's been chilly until about the middle of June. And then we did turn the corner and finally the smoke is gone, too. Yeah, you know, just for people because we have people listening here all across the country. Tell us where Harvey Cedars is and how big of an area of beach you cover and how many people you have on your beach patrol.
Harvey Cedars is a stretch of a beautiful seashore community down here on Long Beach Island. It's roughly 2.2 miles long. For tip. Tip are bookends here. And RV Cedars are also Municipality of Long Beach Township on both ends. One is North Beach, which is to our south and to our north. We have ever so much loveliness, and that's where we're at here on Long Beach Island, roughly six miles at sea from the Garden State Parkway to as well here in central New Jersey.
Gotcha. And you've been with the beach patrol for almost all of your life, Brandy?
Yeah, 25 years. You know, it's been quite some time. I haven't worked for any other agency. And I am elated to be here for another summer season, you know, occurring on an elevated level. As the lifeguard chief for our six new lifeguards that we have here on an annual basis, perfecting lives here at Jersey Shore.
And Randy, you know, we wanted to talk with you a little bit, too, about rip currents. They've been in the news a lot lately. Could you just kind of give us an overview on what rip currents are and then, you know, why they're so dangerous to, you know, to swimmers?
Yeah. So a rip currents, a powerful channel of water rushing away from the shoreline. You know, it's usually caused by, you know, floating wind and, you know, currents that we've had from other swells that are in the area for that day were that have asked through our region as well. They can also be caused by tide, you know, large surf, so forth.
And so and I read somewhere to Randy, I don't know if you know the answer to this, but, you know, there again, there have been a lot of there has been a lot of news about rip currents. Of course, there's been a lot of people that have been either saved or have unfortunately passed from it. But, you know, to put it into perspective, you know, my husband is terrified of sharks.
I mean, just downright terrified. But I read somewhere that there are twice as many deaths from rip currents than there are from shark bites each year. Do you know if that happens to be true or not?
Yes, I think, you know, statistically speaking, you can definitely say that there is a higher chance or probability that you would being swept away in a rip current and would be, you know, bitten by a shark or even, you know, fatally injured by. Sure.
Hey, Randi. Sean, here down in Virginia, a lot of times I go to the North Carolina Outer Banks as well. I spent some time, the Jersey Shore, I love the Atlantic Coast. I was introduced to rip currents long, long ago, back in the seventies, when I was a lad. But for people who don't go very frequently, what's a good way?
They can spot a rip current before they go out in the water? Are there any kind of telltale signs yet?
You know, some telltale signs would be, you know, discolored water. If you're looking at the ocean and appear to be you know, we were green. You also see, you know, white water or sand mixed throughout the water, and it will be rushing directly away from the shoreline. And that discolored water and, you know, extend thousands of feet past where the actual waves are breaking on the sandbar and, you know, up to a mile or so, too, as well, from really strong rip currents that are out there on some of the most extreme days.
How wide are the rip currents? Because oftentimes here you swim perpendicular to the current to get out of it. But but how wide can some of these these currents be?
It would have to, you know, depend on the biochemistry, The other water contour of the, you know, sand and shelf that's there. Also, there's other variables that, you know, could come into play. Rock jetties, Piers, you know, storm drain, so forth and such. And that would depend on a, you know, case by case area on where you live.
But they can be very wide. We'd see, you know, you know, two, three, four blocks wide, some instances where we have, you know, gaps in the sandbar, so forth and such. And if there's equals next to, you know, piers or storm drains, those ones can tend to be wider and more extreme, too. The water pressure builds up against those, you know, solid features that are permanent there.
Do they tend to be more more common near jetties?
Yes. I would like to think that they would be more prevalent near, you know, big structures in the water considering, you know, the tide and or swell direction is going to run one way or another off the beach. And it's just going to have increased pressure on those areas. You know, as you now, if you're piling water up in the corner of a tub, it's got to go somewhere else now.
Yes, definitely more prevalent in those areas. Rock piles generally support rain.
You know, you know, here on the East Coast, we got lifeguards are usually patrolling up and down the coast here. You know, that's not always the case depending on where you are and especially on the time of year. Right. Once they get the September yellow, even here in Jersey, you know, we're we're really reducing the amount of beach patrol coverage we do have here.
We've had 62 deaths, unfortunately, due to something in the surf zone. Yeah. When you think about the weather aspect of things, you know, for people who are, you know, they're going to the beach, there might not be a lifeguard around there living a part of a country where there's not what kind of weather conditions, you know, are you looking for, you know, that saying, hey, you know, this is a day with a high risk of rip currents.
You can apply this principle to any aspect of your life. The one most important here that we're talking about today is, you know, rip, current, rip currents and, you know, creating awareness around those. If you're unaware or you're uncertain of the conditions, if you don't have an experience, you know, being at the shore, whether it may be the New Jersey Shore or North Carolina or Florida, where you may be in the world, you know, if you're onshore, you always want to ask somebody, most municipalities, towns and cities have social media outlets that have weather up information available on rip currents above and beyond that, You know, when in doubt, I would ask questions to somebody
who would be close to me if there wasn't a lifeguard within the vicinity. But if it's, you know, obviously rough, there's definitely going to be an elevated chance of rip currents in the area. You know, you can basically look at the surf. If there's waves coming in, you can almost guarantee that. And on any given day, you're going to find rip currents at some point throughout that day, Best thing you can do is educate and inform yourself prior to heading to the shore destinations in the summer months or whether you may be visiting, you know, an area that has warm water in the winter, you know, educate, inform yourself on rip currents and awareness, because
with awareness you have a choice whether to go out or not or find that safe.
So to know when you guys are going out, you know, in the morning, you're setting up your stand and you have the flags, you know, you have the red flags and the yellow flags. Are you actually picking spots that are the safest places at the sea or are you picking spots that might be just down the street? That's an accessible point for people.
Yes, That's a that's a great point of conversation here, Joe. You know, we have morning muster every day where all of our lifeguards gather collectively and, you know, exchange information. A lot of this information comes down from our management staff to inform and educate our lifeguards, the employees, the individuals who are in charge, you know, public safety on a daily basis.
So allow them to occur on an elevated level for the end user and anything we can do to inform and educate public through our social media outlets or, you know, one on one conversation or by our signage on the back of our lifeguard stands to get the message out there for, you know, the conditions at and that day, once we have this information, you know collectively amongst our group, first thing in the morning, our management staff will work hand in hand with the lifeguards up there on the beach for proper, you know, flag placement each set up to ensure the safest area for swimming and recreational activities as well.
So in short, we're not just, you know, passing flags and, you know, the sand on some random spot on any given beach on any given day. There's a method to our madness and we're very meticulous about it to ensure, you know, the public safety.
So I grew up going down to the Gulf Coast, I grew up in Texas, and so we were in that part of the country and I felt like the term undertow was used quite frequently. How were those similar or different? Do people get those confused a lot?
Yes, they do get it. They do get them confused. Undertow would be considered or classified ads. You know that down sucking motion that you would have from a wave passing by you, but you also can be sucked underneath by a very strong recurrent to if there's any structure underneath you too as well. So that same type of sensation, although undertow would be that, you know, when you're getting pulled under from wave that as asked if the water's actually going down towards the bottom of the ocean.
And again, you know, during rip currents, too, if there's some type of underwater structure that would indicate that that type of crime is there as well.
Hey, Randy, is there a particular good or bad time of day to be in the water with regard to water safety? And a lot of people want to go in early in the morning or late in the evening. You know, tides changing, coming in, coming out, or is there any any logic to that at all in terms of this time?
Traditionally as good or bad?
Yeah. I would like to start off by saying the best time you can, you know, enjoy the ocean, what weather doesn't matter what beach that you're at, you know, it's going to be between the hours at 10 a.m. 5 p.m. when lifeguards are staffed typically on most beaches throughout the country, often we do get water rescue calls after 5 p.m. and 4:10 a.m. You know, I would advise obviously not swimming prior to lifeguards being on duty and or after they've left for the day.
You know, some beach patrol agencies offer extended hours or about 6 p.m. as well as some other agencies offer, you know, roving patrols up and down the beach like we do. And so about 8 p.m. ever again. When in doubt, go out and actually can, you know, swim with somebody who's a proficient swimmer, know your limits, you know, definitely don't want to be out there by yourself with no beach.
Awesome. All good stuff so far. Randy, we're going to take a brief break and then the other side, we're going to have more about rip currents, the surf zone and all good things. You're talking about the water with Randy Townsend, chief of lifeguards here in enhancing. You're listening to the Cross.
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The Sky podcast.
We are back with the Across the Sky podcast. New episodes drop wherever you get your podcast every Monday. It's also on your favorite news website as well. We are part of LEA Enterprises over 70 newsrooms across the United States, including here in Atlantic City, Ron Bass, Randy Townsend, also in the process of Atlantic City coverage area chief of lifeguards here in Harvey Cedars.
Randi, let me ask you, you know, what got you interested in the water?
Oh, my my dad, my dad and my mom. I had the fortunate opportunity to grow up a stone's throw away from the bay and beach and a town that resides, you know, just slightly to the south of where I'm currently working here in Harvey Cedars. I was born and raised in Surf City, New Jersey, Long Beach Island, where I still resides there with my family.
And for people who don't know Long Beach Island, you know, I don't know hundreds of thousands of people during the summer and then during the winter, you know, it's really only a couple thousand that are there. It's a much quieter place during the winter, like many places along the northeast coast here. But a beautiful place to just visit out your Barnet Lighthouse on the northern tip of the island as well.
Some some really good sites here. Randi, let me ask you this. You know, you mentioned just on the other side of this, the first half about, you know, the best time to swim is when, you know, there are lifeguards present. A question I have for you is, you know, a lot of times you're seeing surfers out there at seven, eight in the morning before the lifeguards are present.
You know, you're someone who serves and is a lifeguard. So how do you how do you balance out, you know, the fact that, you know, surfers want to get out there at certain times, but we're also trying to keep everybody who's in the water safe as well.
That is, you know, a double edged sword that I do walk as a lifeguard chief here. But it's very, very yes, the number of individuals who are enjoying the beach on a daily basis, it's general the general public for that that matter. We do have surfing areas outside of our flags where the safe swimming zone is. You know, typically the sandbar where the safe swimming zone is, though, is also where the great waves are because of the sandbar itself, too, as well.
But given, you know, the 2.2 miles of beach here, there's no doubt in my mind since you can surf outside the flags on any beach here in our seniors, that, you know, there's more than an ample, you know, space for everybody to enjoy, you know, whether it's just swimming or bathing or if you're out there on a kayak, stand up paddleboard or a surfboard like like the Job for Tots.
Well.
Yeah. And Randy is an illustrious surfer who has traveled all across the world surfing. Randy, I don't know if you can give us an elevator pitch of your surfing experience, but if you could try to boil it down, just explain where you've been and you know, some of the awards and accolades you had over the year, you could check them out on YouTube.
You can type in his name. You see a bunch of a bunch of videos there as well. But but this man that we're speaking to is somewhat of a legend in the surfing community.
Thanks, Joe, for the awesome introduction to that other aspect of my life. Naturally, somewhat. Thank you. Thank you. Yet, you know, I was recently inducted to the New Jersey Surfing all fame at the age of 44. I work with multitude of 501 seat threes, you know, to assist kids with special needs and learning through surf therapy. I also run Northeast Conference, the National Scholastic Surfing Association, which links, you know, schooling with surfing, which is really, really gratifying.
I am I still search team coach for the iSchool that I attended and my youth over there at Southern Regional across the bridge at Manahawkin won numerous pro surfing events here in the state and throughout the country and internationally. Internationally traveled the surf that's the way through Southeast Asia, Africa, the Caribbean, Central America. I mean, been around the world for sure.
My favorite favorite place in Surfers Southeast Asia, that little chain of islands about a hundred miles off the coast, all the mental wise and internship, some of the world's best surf there for sure.
That sounds absolutely phenomenal, man. So I want you to riff on that a little bit more. But the other thing I wanted to to get for my own edification, what are some of the bigger differences between the Atlantic beaches in terms of waves and sand and like versus the Pacific Coast? Beaches, waves, sand and periods and wave heights and that kind of stuff.
And then go on, man, and tell me about this beautiful beaches in South East Asia. So I want to hear all about that.
All right. So differences between East Coast and West Coast, I'll start off with the the most obvious, you know, typically up, up and down the eastern shore here, except with the exception of the northeast and doing when we pretty much have, you know, sand covered beaches, there is a structure until you get up into like Long Island, New York, out there on Montauk, Rhode Island, you know, Maine and those areas up there in New England, they have a lot more structure up there and do have similar characteristics to the wave types that are out.
California. You know, on the other end of the spectrum, on the West Coast, there is a lot more structure leading into the water. There's, you know, wait breaks where it actually has, you know, rock or cobblestone shells that leads into the water where the waves will actually, you know, peel in symmetry down the rock cobblestone reefs or shells out there.
We typically don't get that in, you know, our waters here in New Jersey and south. We won't find that again until you get to the Caribbean and respectably up in the Northeast, up and new went above and beyond that, differences between the East Coast and the West Coast as far as it pertains to, you know, small forecasting and the actual Sir and Joe, you'd be able to comment on this one too, as well.
Is that typically here, you know, when we get storms, they're coming from land based here in New Jersey and throughout the East Coast as well, whereas out on the West Coast and in California, the storms that they get out there, you know, are coming from ocean to the shoreline. So there's a huge difference in, you know, the actual quality of surf when it arrives and how quickly, you know, it dissipates as it needs to as well.
So on the West Coast, you know, when you get a storm system coming in, you'll have a gradual increase in surf with pristine surfing conditions until the actual storm makes landfall on the West Coast. Whereas out here on the East Coast, conversely, you would have, you know, the storm system typically being coming from the land, going out into the ocean where you would have really rough conditions until the surf or storm passed where and then you would have, you know, very clean, pristine conditions for surfing as the storm departed.
You're on the East Coast and it would dissipate very, very rapidly, whereas on the West Coast, the swell, the K would, you know, so to speak, stick around for a lot longer due to the fact that the storm has been generating waves out the ocean for that much more of an extended period of time? You know, typically speaking, again, you know, I've had extensive experience out there on the West Coast with the, you know, Rocky Mountain being so, so close in proximity to the shore there.
You know, and the fact that the water temperatures annually are much more on a daily basis out there, they get a lot less wind than we typically do out here on the East Coast, you know, and respectively. The converse is also true. You're on the East Coast as well due to, you know, the multitude of convection that we get all throughout the country.
Here on the East Coast, we had typically our much windier days, more powerful sea breezes and storms, too, as well when they are prevalent in the areas that we are enjoying.
I think you covered it all there, Randy. I don't know if I even need to chime in on that one.
You know, I tried to make it clear and concise as possible without getting into too much detail. I'm sure there's a plethora of other, you know, differences between East and West Coast surfing. But a few of the most obvious I had mentioned where you.
You don't really get as many of those epic days on surf line out on the East Coast as you might on the West Coast.
Now, definitely they aren't as prevalent, but when we do get them, they are absolutely world class. Otherwise, I would have moved away from New Jersey a long time ago.
So, Randy, tell us, you know, if you've never been to the beach before, right. Or you're one of those. Yeah, I was. People might go once a year, right? You're taking your trip down? Yeah. You're flying down to Florida, you're coming to New Jersey, whatever. What advice would you give to make sure that you know, you're enjoying the beach, you know, and staying safe, too?
If you're stepping on the sand for the first time in years.
So if I'm coming down to the Jersey Shore for the first time and I haven't been here for a long time, I would, you know, immediately reach out to, you know, the this story that I am going to be visiting. They would be the most up to date, you know, source of information that it would pertain to the conditions that and being up on the ocean front.
I want to believe at this point in time with the, you know, technology that we have, everybody's moving forward at the same rate to be able to provide this information to the public on a daily basis, you know, above and beyond that, you know, NOAA's a great resource as well as a multitude of other weather media outlets out there that can provide you with, you know, current up to date information on out to ABC.
Randy, anything else you want to add here before we wrap it on?
The most important thing you can do is just, you know, be aware of your surroundings and, you know, know your limits. And when you're on shore now, seek out the individual who may be able to provide you with the pertinent information that you're looking for and or point in the right direction to be able to acquire that information to ensure that, you know, you have a safe beach standing, you return to your residence at the end of the day.
And if anybody wants to follow you, follow, see what's going on with Harvesters Beach Patrol. Where can they do that?
Yeah, social media at Harvey Cedars Beach Patrol, as well as you know, on Facebook to know were there as well. Harvey Cedars Police Department does a great job of, you know, following up with our tweets and posts and social media posts that we have out there to inform and educate the public, make them aware of the conditions here.
It's about one more quick thing before we go. What what's lightning protocol? You know, thunderstorm protocol there at the beaches, Randi.
Yeah. So if lightning is within proximity of us, we you know, there are beaches and don't return to the beach for 30 minutes from the last lightning strike within proximity of, you know.
Where we're at. Awesome. Well, Randi, thanks again for hopping on and talking about this, my man. It was great to have you on. And we hope you and everybody in Harvey Cedars has an awesome and safe rest stop. We'll talk to you soon.
Thank you so much for having me again.
Looking beyond the atmosphere, here's Tony Reyes with your astronomy outlook, Morris points the way to Regulus, the brightest star in Leo this week. Look west. After sunset, you'll see Venus. It's at its brightest this week up and to the left, look for a slightly orange point of light. That's Mars, some 211 million miles away. Now, the White Star, that's about a finger's with blue.
That's Regulus. It's also known as Alpha Leo because it's the brightest star in that constellation. Regulus is the bottom most star in the backwards question mark that forms the front of Leo. These subsections of constellations, they're known as Asterisms things like the Southern and northern crosses, as well as the big and little dippers. They're all asterisms constellations. On the other hand, those are more official things.
The modern list of 88 constellations was recognized by the International Astronomical Union, the professional organization of astronomers back in 1922. Few years later, borders were drawn around each one of those constellations, and it's those borders that serve astronomers By defining neighborhoods in the sky, they can be used to easily describe where new discoveries can be found. That's your astronomy outlook.
Follow me at RTP hockey for more spacey stuff like this.
Randi, as always, good. Got to speak to you. Very knowledgeable and articulate as well. And really good breakdown of Atlantic and Pacific coach beaches and there their differences when it comes to the swell in the waves and surfing and the storms and all of that. You know I feel like, you know, if you're in lifeguarding or surfing, it's almost like, you know, you know, half weather already, you're halfway to being a meteorologist, you know, and vice versa.
So it was nice to have Randi on and, you know, talk about what to look for, you know, for rip currents in the surf zone. Shawn, what do you think?
Yeah, it's great. I mean, you know, meteorology, oceanography there entwined from the get go, that's for sure. So that's always nice to have have those two kind of things merged together when we do a podcast. But yeah, I mean, I kind of intrinsically kind of thought that idea about the Pacific Waves versus the Atlantic waves, but it was good to hear from somebody who's lived it, who has seen it.
And the other thing I was really glad you brought this up, Kirsten, about about safety. Right. We hear so much about onshore rigs, but rip currents are way, way more of a threat than sharks are to people at the beach. And I think any time we can kind of repeat that message, it's the rip currents y'all need to sharks.
I think that's a good idea.
You know, And before we did this podcast, I went online to just kind of do a little bit of researching about rip currents, too. And they Noah has a good video out there in case you do plan on heading out and doing some swimming. They have a good you know, sometimes I feel like people always say make sure that you swim parallel to the shore.
And I feel like sometimes in my head I'm like, would like parallel perfect. Like, you know, you're trying to put it all together and really think about it. But if you go to know his website or kind of Google, you know, rip currents. Noah They have a nice little video that they made, a little animation that shows exactly what to do in case you do get caught in one of those situations.
So it's worth the it's worth giving it a look in case. For some reason I happened to go swimming on one of the Gulf Coast or one of the, you know, Atlantic or Pacific coasts over the next couple of years. Now I feel prepared.
Are you saying you're not planning on making a visit to the Atlantic or Pacific Coast person?
Maybe not to go swimming anytime soon?
You know, it's so different. The idea where you know, where you are and what your experiences are with the beach or with the mountains or anything, you know, like like for me, like going to the mountains, like is just like a foreign concept. The little mountains in New Jersey don't count, but going to the beach is like, Yeah, everybody does that, but it's vice versa.
Depending on where you are. All right. So good episode with Randy here. Kirsten, you're working on our next podcast guest coming up next Monday. Tell us a little bit about what we have going on.
Yeah, so kind of playing off of this too. You know, we were talking about how, you know, weather impacts, of course, the ocean then and and and surfing and, you know, it also impacts sports. And we've talked about that a bunch in the past too, I think. And and so what we have going on, we're going to be speaking with an OSU student.
She is she's a really cool girl. You know, I'm really very inspired by her, too. I think she's doing a lot already just at her young age, but she is also an avid golfer and with oh, you want a golf scholarship initially, too, and has put the two together. Her two loves golf and weather. And so we're going to hopefully sit down and chat with her a little bit on, you know, how much the weather does impact the golf game.
Awesome. Well, we're looking forward to that. We have the open championship coming up, too. So good timing as well. But we are going to wrap it up for this week's episode of the Across the Sky podcast. Remember new episodes every Monday. Check it out wherever you get your podcast and we'll be with you soon. On behalf of Sean Sublette, Kirsten Lange and Matt Holiner, who cannot be with us this week, I'm Joe Martucci.
We'll talk to you soon.