PHOENIX β Calling them portals to transgenderism and a form of grooming, state lawmakers are moving to outlaw "drag shows'' in front of children and make felons of those who not only perform but also their parents who agree to let them attend.
But members of the House Judiciary Committee, who approved the measure Wednesday on a party-line vote, could not even agree on exactly what it is they are banning.
Rep. Michael Way, who crafted HB 2589, said it's about protecting children from being exposed to nudity and certain sexual activities while performers are "dressed as the opposite sex.''
And the Queen Creek Republican said that "members of the drag community themselves say publicly that drag involves a lot of filth, sexual stuff and nudity, sex and drugs, whether it's backstage, underground, or performance related.''
But Rep. Alma Hernandez pointed out that Way acknowledged he never has actually seen a drag show. And the Tucson Democrat, who said she has β since she was in 12th grade β said that Way is off base.
One issue comes down to the definition Way is using to describe a "drag show performance.''
The legislation says any one of three things would qualify.
One is a performance characterized "by the exposure of specific anatomical areas or specified sexual activities while dressed as the opposite sex.''
Another is anything that already is defined in the criminal code as "harmful to minors.''
Rep. Lupe Contreras pointed out both are already crimes under Arizona law.
Where the Avondale Democrat said he is having difficulty is a third category. That includes anyone who uses clothing, makeup costume, prosthetics or other physical markers "to present an exaggerated and stylized gender expression that different from the person's biological sex or normal gender presentation.''
Rep. Michael Way
And that, saidΒ Contreras, covers a lot of ground.
He specifically cited the Wallace and Ladmo Show, which aired for generations on Phoenix TV, from 1954 through 1989. Parents often found themselves pressured by their children to go to the show, which was formed in front of a live audience of kids.
One of the stars was Pat McMahon. He played a number of roles in costume, including right-wing superhero Captain Super, Gerald who was a bratty wealthy kid, and, Aunt Maude who would read "children's stories'' that did not end well and flirted with a Phoenix cop who was a regular guest on the show.
Oh, and McMahon was attired in a dress, a shawl, and a wig.
Using such a broad definition, Contreras suggested, would have made everyone involved β including the parents who took their kids to the show β a felon, with the legislation subjecting those convicted to 2 1/2 years in state prison.
"I haven't seen that show,'' Way responded. He said, though, he disagrees with the way Contreras is reading his legislation.
But Rep. Selina Bliss, a Prescott Republican who said she has seen the show, said what was going on there is not what would be affected by Way's proposal.
The broader discussion, however, centered over arguments between supporters and foes about what is right, what is harmful β and what is the role of the legislature in deciding not just whether drag shows are bad but whether the law should override the rights of parents to make decisions for their own children on attending them.
"I've often wondered what some of the subtle motives are behind the performances,'' said Rep. Kyhl Powell.
"I believe that if you do research you'll find studies that suggest gender dysphoria,'' said the Gilbert Republican. The Mayo Clinic describes that as "a feeling of distress that can happen when a person's gender identity differs from the sex assigned at birth.''
Powell said that young children, who are "unable to discern the differences'' between sex have it "unknowingly communicated to them that transgenderism is OK, that it's beneficial, that it's good for them.
Rep. Lupe Diaz, a Benson Republican, has his own views about the effect of drag shows.
"Grooming is a thing,'' he said, a reference to a practice that can be used by adults to build a relationship with a child to exploit them, often sexually. "Grooming can come in a lot of different ways.''
And Diaz said that parents are concerned that there are people in drag who perform at libraries, telling stories and singing songs, using what he said is "suggestive behavior that's inappropriate to children.''
"That is not normal,'' he said.
"What we're really talking about here is that God created the male and female,'' Diaz said. What's happening with performances like this is an attempt to "move the needle of acceptance.''
"As legislators, we get to decide what's going to be acceptable and what's not,'' he said. And that, supporters said, is no different than regulations on how old someone has to be to see a movie with a certain rating to prohibitions against children going to a strip club.
Hernandez, however, said what's going on here is beyond the role of the legislature.
"It is absolutely ridiculous for us to sit here and try to compare a performance, who none of you have ever been to, and try to equate it somehow to a strip club,'' she said.
Hernandez also took a swat over the comments linking drag performances with grooming and gender dysphoria.
"This is the ignorance that is so frustrating and that we continue to sit here and pretend that we're not attacking one community,'' she said. And that, said Hernandez, goes to what she believes is the real agenda behind the legislation.
"If it wasn't about the gay community or the trans community, you wouldn't have mentioned what you did,'' she said.
Powell, however, said he is making a decision based on his beliefs, which, like the statements made by Diaz, is the prerogative of elected legislators representing their constituents.
If there's nothing "vile'' going on, Powell said, that's fine. But he has a different view.
"It's my opinion that the majority of people who participate in drag, just like Rep. Way has illustrated, are on the side of not being virtuous,'' Powell said.
He also said he is not trying to take away the rights of parents to make decisions for their children.
"Parents are accountable for that,'' Powell said. But he also said he is accountable if he turns a blind eye to conduct he considers harmful.
"I believe that this type of behavior is harmful that it leads to injury, emotional injury,'' Powell said. "It leads to confusion. It hurts society in general. I will not err on the side of the minority.''
Even if the measure clears the House and the Senate, its future is questionable. In 2023, her first year in office, Gov. Katie Hobbs vetoed four separate measures aimed at drag shows.
She said at the time the bills were "attempts to criminalized free expression and ostracize the LGBTQIA+ community both implicitly and explicitly, creating statutory language that could be weaponized by those who choose hate over acceptance.'' And that, said Hobbs, won't pass her desk.
"I have made it abundantly clear that I am committed to building an Arizona for everyone and will not support any legislation that attempts to marginalize our fellow Arizonans,'' the governor said.
