PHOENIX β The new head of the Arizona Department of Public Safety said there is βa disproportionate use of force against people of colorβ nationwide.
But Jeffrey Glover told members of the Senate Committee on Director Nominations on Monday that he does not believe police officers are βsystemically racist.β He said, though, they have been called upon to enforce what could be considered laws that have disparate effects on minority communities, including here in Arizona.
The comments came as Glover, the pick of Gov. Katie Hobbs to head the DPS, survived a key hurdle, gaining unanimous recommendation. Glover now needs confirmation of the full Senate.
Lawmakers on the panel queried Glover on who he intends to hire and whether he would quit if his views on funding DPS diverged from the governor. He said he has not decided on the former and could not answer the latter.
But there was interest by members of the screening panel to question Glover, who is Black, about race relations.
βYouβre talking about a complex issue when youβre talking about racism,β he said.
On one hand, Glover told lawmakers βovertβ racism is clearly not acceptable.
βBut we do understand that there are implicit biases that people do carry,β he continued. βAnd that is a little more of a concern within law enforcement, which is why weβve been training on it for the past 20 years to address these issues, to ensure that our officers are doing the right thing.β
And thereβs something else.
βI donβt believe it is the people as much as maybe laws or things that we enforce at times that may have an effect on the minority community,β Glover said. βThereβs different laws that may impact minorities greater than others.β
He cited, for example, SB 1070, a 2010 law designed to have state and local police enforce federal immigration laws. That included a requirement for police, when stopping a vehicle, to ask occupants to provide proof of legal presence in this country.
Many of the provisions were struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court. But whatβs been referred to as the βpapers, pleaseβ law remains on the books after the Attorney Generalβs Office agreed to issue an opinion on how that can be enforced and precautions against racial profiling.
βWe saw that there were a lot of Hispanics that were being stopped or pulled over,β Glover said, something that had a greater impact on people of color.
βItβs not that the officers were racist,β he said. βItβs just that we had a law that, quite frankly, was created with good intention. It just had a negative impact on a community.β
Sen. Jake Hoffman, R-Queen Creek, who chairs the panel, pursued the issue.
βEven if I accept the premise that 1070 was racist, which I donβt ... thatβs one instance,β he said. βIt doesnβt reflect a systematic issue.β
Glover repeated his assertion that he does not see systematic racism.
βIβm saying that people are people and that youβre going to have individuals that will do different things that may have an implicit connotation to it,β he said.
βYou have laws that may have an unintended consequence,β Glover said. βBut Iβm not saying it from a systematic, racist connotation.β
There is a history within DPS.
In 2006, seeking to end a five-year-old lawsuit, the agency agreed to collect βmeaningfulβ data on its traffic stops for the following three years, including the race of those involved.
Yet a follow-up of records of 2007 stops showed that DPS officers were still far more likely to ask Hispanic motorists for permission to search their vehicles than other groups.
That study showed no evidence that Hispanics were more likely to carry contraband. In fact, the report said the research showed that Hispanics were not only the least likely to object to searches but also the least likely to be found in possession of illegal items when searched.
Hoffman also grilled Glover on the fact that Living United for Change in Arizona endorsed Hobbs. But LUCHA also has been active in rallies to βdefundβ the police in favor of spending money on programs that invest in communities.
The senator wanted to know what would happen if Hobbs, who has not pursued such an agenda, decided to go along.
Glover said his role would be to show the governor and her staff data on crime, human smuggling, the fentanyl crisis all βas a reason why you should not defund the police.β
Whatβs been happening across the country, he told lawmakers, is that communities that have taken money away from police βhave had to re-fund, at a very high price.β
βThatβs a significant issue because when you defund you tend to make your community victims of crime,β Glover said.
He spoke of the experience in Compton, California, where he grew up and where his father still lives, which disbanded its police department in 2000.
βIt started a crime wave,β Glover said.
βThe people there just wanted good policing,β he said. βThey didnβt want the police department to go away. They just wanted to have good policing.β
Sen. Sine Kerr, R-Buckeye, queried Glover on how he would handle protests.
He said all that starts ahead of an event.
βMost of the information is out there, most of the information is being posted, the social media, the announcement to gather,β Glover said. He said that allows police to reach out to those involved.
βYou will find a lot of times they will start providing you information or context as to what they are going to do,β Glover said. βThat actually better prepares us as law enforcement professionals to be able to do our job.β
He said if organizers say they will seek mass arrests, then police know what resources they need to deploy.
βThey have a right to protest,β Glover said. βBut you have to do it under the law. It has to be lawful protest.β
And he said if there are indications up front that there will be illegal activity, βyou have to warn them that if you go outside these boundaries, you will be arrested.β
Glover also said that if there are issues, it isnβt necessary for police to immediately go in and start to round up those responsible, especially if it looks like officers will be overwhelmed.
βWith cell phones, with cameras, with monitoring systems, we have a better opportunity of being able to go after those offenders at a later date as well if we canβt immediately effect an arrest,β he said.
Glover also told the screening committee panel he supports a decision by Hobbs to dissolve the Border Strike Force and reallocate the $12 million that lawmakers had previously allocated instead to other duties by DPS officers. That financial move, which still has to be approved by the Legislature, has come over the objections of several sheriffs who say the DPS officers, plus the funds for local law enforcement, have been crucial to dealing with fentanyl and human smuggling.
Kerr said she also has heard from the local Border Patrol chief, who told her of βatrocities that theyβre seeing.β
Hobbs, however, has been unconvinced.
βRight now, the Border Strike Force is not actually being utilized at the border,β she said at a February news conference. βSo, we want to coordinate those resources where they can be most helpful with law enforcement there.β
Kerr questioned Glover whether he believes DPS should simply play a secondary role to local law enforcement.
βWhat I have proposed is we work in conjunction with the sheriffs and with those local municipalities to address issues that are essentially the smuggling and the fentanyl issues,β he responded. And Glover told Hoffman that there are good reasons for DPS to be in a collaborative role versus being the leader.
βAlthough they may not have the technology ... what they do have is actionable intelligence,β he explained.
βTheyβre able to actually hear from their community members,β he said. βThey are making arrests, they are coming into contact with these individuals.β