PHOENIX — Saying God is needed in schools, the Arizona House has approved allowing chaplains in public school classrooms.
Senate Bill 1269 would allow, but not require, school boards to invite chaplains from various religions into schools to provide “support, services or programs’’ to students.
There would be parental buy-in, including a list of available chaplains. And proponents say it it crafted in a way to prohibit participants from proselytizing.
That did not satisfy foes who said if parents want religious counseling for their children they are free to get that elsewhere, either by taking them to a house of worship or, if they want it to be part of their academics, enrolling them in private or parochial school. They pointed out that the state provides vouchers of taxpayer funds for such an option.
There’s also the contention chaplains would not be needed if the state properly funded counselors and therapists.
But proponents contend there is still a need for students to get a different point of view.
Rep. David Livingston
Rep. David Livingston, a Peoria Republican, said students are dealing with everything from drugs to cutting themselves.
“This bill is not the solution to everything in life,’’ but could be one of the answers, he said.
“What parents are wanting is more ethics, more discipline, and, I believe more God in their schools,’’ said Livingston.
Casa Grande Republican Rep. Teresa Martinez agreed.
“When we talk about issues of suicide and cutting themselves, maybe a counselor is not what’s required,’’ she said. “Maybe faith and God is what is required. I think we have to do a better job of including God in everything we do.’’
And Rep. Justin Olson said what is happening in the United States is creation of a state religion in violation of the Constitution. But that religion, he said, is secularism.
“We need to work against that,’’ said the Mesa Republican.
“We need to recognize that we should be turning to God, we should be looking to faith, and our children need opportunities to see faith and to look to a higher power,’’ Olson said. “And that’s what is available under this bill.’’
The final House vote was 31-29, with one Republican defection.
Rep. Nick Kupper, a Surprise Republican, told colleagues he agrees with many of their arguments that there is no constitutional requirement to separate faith and state. But he said SB 1269 goes too far.
“Far too often I think schools these days have become something quite different from when I was going to school,’’ said Kupper. “I think we’ve made our public schools into mother, father, counselor, priest, rabbi,’’ beyond the basic point of public education. “This bill expands what a school should be.’’
A final Senate vote is needed before the measure goes to Democratic Gov. Katie Hobbs.
The legislation opens the door to counselors of all faiths — sort of. To get on the list, a chaplain would have to be from a “local religious group.’’ But that would be limited to those who meet at least monthly, and only if those meetings are at a site in which the district is located.
SB 1269 then further defines eligible religions as those with a hierarchy of teachers, clergy, sages or priests, a regular practice of ritual or protocol, that “acknowledges the existence of and worships one or more supernatural entities that possess power over the natural world.’’
All that raised questions from Rep. Stephanie Simacek, a Phoenix Democrat.
Last month, during a committee hearing, she raised the issue of how those rules would keep out counselors who are atheists, even if that is the preference of the parents.
That didn’t slow progress on the bill. This week, with a roll-call vote on the floor, she argued that the measure violates parental rights in other ways.
“I’m the parent of two in public education,’’ Simacek said. This bill, she said, would allow a chaplain “to preach to my child what is right and what is wrong.’’
Tucson Democratic Rep. Nancy Gutierrez had her own take. She said there are kids who do need to talk with trained adults about issues, whether counselors or social workers. Yet Arizona averages only one counselor to about 600 students, she said, while the national standard is one to 250.
“We are vastly underfunded,’’ she said. “It’s a critical role.’’
Gutierrez said nothing in this bill helps.
“All this does is put volunteers on a campus to talk about spirit, religion,’’ she said. “And that’s not going to help these kids who are harming themselves.’’
Rep. Stephanie Stahl Hamilton, a Tucson Democrat, warned of another potential problem.
Under Arizona law, teachers, counselors, therapists and social workers are all “mandatory reporters.’’ That means they are required to inform police or the Department of Child Safety if there is reason to believe a child has been abused or neglected. That also can include situations where a child says something to the person.
The requirement to report specifically exempts clergy if they get a confidential communication or confession in connection with their religious duties, Stahl Hamilton pointed out. That would include those working as volunteer chaplains, she said.
“I find that very disconcerting that we are creating a loophole for clergy who are not held to the same standard, high standards, as our educators or any other school personnel,’’ Stahl Hamilton said.
But Scottsdale Republican Rep. Alexander Kolodin said his own life experiences lead him to consider the proposal a good thing.
“Not everybody loves Jews,’’ he told colleagues. “And that was certainly the case while I was in school. And I kind of wish I’d had the opportunity to have a chaplain of my religion in school while I was dealing with some of that stuff because I think it could have helped.’’
