PHOENIX — State lawmakers are moving to make it illegal to use computer “bots’’ to scoop up tickets for concerts and sporting events and then resell them to Arizonans at sharply inflated prices.
But at least one legislator is questioning whether the proposal is enforceable or would make any real difference.
After hearing that skepticism, the bill’s sponsor, Rep. David Cook, said he might alter his proposal as it moves through the Legislature.
Cook told colleagues the issue came across his radar last year when Taylor Swift fans found out they couldn’t buy tickets from the official website because they were already taken by automated software. The software, designed to fool the sales site to get around the limit on how much any one individual could buy, bought tickets so fast that Ticketmaster ended up shutting down sales — leaving fans with the only option to buy from secondary sellers setting their own prices.
“The fans got fleeced for a lot of money,’’ said Cook, a Globe Republican. “The Legislature needs to stand up and protect Arizonans today.’’
His House Bill 2040, which cleared the House Commerce Committee this week, would forbid anyone from using a bot to purchase more tickets than the listed limit. That includes “fooling’’ the sales site through multiple internet protocol addresses, creating multiple purchaser accounts or having multiple email addresses.
It also would bar anyone from finding a way around any sort of electronic queue or waiting period to snap up tickets before others have a chance.
Ticket prices jacked up
Randall Vogel, who said he specializes in presentation of performances and concerts, said bots have had a great impact on ticket prices, and not just for big events like Swift’s Eras Tour.
“Thousands of tickets are purchased annually from medium or small venues across the state by bots,’’ Vogel said. “And they are then resold at exorbitant prices at the expense of true fans, limiting access to affordable admission to a performance.’’
Vogel said he has seen $50 tickets snapped up and then resold for $300.
“Without legislation, this issue will only get worse,’’ he said.
Attorney Howard Waltzman said there already is a federal law that, at least on paper, bans the use of bots. That law allows a state attorney general to enforce it, said Waltzman, who represents Live Nation and its Ticketmaster affiliate.
But those lawsuits must be filed in federal court, a process he said is much slower than if these complaints were handled in state court. Another part of the problem, he said, is that the Federal Trade Commission has first priority in pursuing such cases, meaning any state action has to wait until that is done.
This measure would put the issue in state courts.
Stubhub opposes law
While Live Nation is in support, the legislation is getting opposition from Stubhub.
Stubhub maintains a website where it offers tickets for resale, including for the upcoming Men’s Final Four scheduled for April in Glendale. A check of the website showed a pair of tickets in the lower tiers going for more than $8,000.
“We provide choice for consumers,’’ said Sean Auyash, who testified on behalf of Stubhub. He argued that this actually is much safer for customers than it used to be.
“Stubhub revolutionized the resale marketplace by bringing ticket resale off the street and bringing it online,’’ Auyash said. He told lawmakers that no one should prohibit that practice.
As Auyash sees it, if there’s an issue with bots, that’s a problem for the primary sellers, meaning the venues and the services like Ticketmaster that it uses. He said it’s up to them to set up procedures and practices to keep individuals and computer programs from snatching up more than their fair share of tickets.
That explanation did not sit well with Rep. Analise Ortiz. The Phoenix Democrat has been working with Cook to rein in these kinds of practices.
She got Auyash to acknowledge that at least some of the tickets sold on Stubhub may have originated from people using bots.
“Should we make this illegal, those people using bots to get around the system who then go to your service and use your service to price gouge, those people will no longer be coming to you, which means your bottom line would take a hit,’’ Ortiz said.
Auyash sidestepped the question, responding that the use of bots already is illegal under federal law and that Arizona should not be approving its own regulations.
Enforcement questions
Enforcement is another issue.
“The bots are sophisticated technical attacks,’’ Waltzman said. “It is often impossible to know what IP address an attack is coming from,’’ he said of internet protocol addresses that are supposed to identify the origin of the connection but often don’t.
“Even if you know the numbers of the IP address, that’s an IP address that’s bouncing around from Bulgaria to the Philippines to wherever else,’’ Waltzman said. “You can’t identify who’s using those bots, let alone who is paying for those bots to be used so they can sell tickets.’’
People also can set up dummy email addresses, he said.
All that bothered Rep. Justin Heap, R-Mesa, who questioned why the state should now have the attorney general investigate.
“If you can’t identify who’s using bots to stop the sellers, how are you then going to identify who used a bot in order to get the AG to file injunctive relief?’’ he asked.
Cook agreed. But he said the solution may be to alter his legislation to put the focus on where it belongs: The secondary sellers like Stubhub that are buying the tickets.
He said they should be forced to inquire of those who offer up, say, 60 tickets for a event where the limit was four. “’OK, well how’d you get them?’’’ should be first the question asked, he said. “Then they have to start explaining themselves.’’
One option, Cook said, would be adding something to his proposal: A requirement for secondary buyers like Stubhub to report such unusual offers. “They’re the ones doing it,’’ he said.
Cook said he will weigh options for alterations when the measure goes to the full House.
Ticketmaster executives were grilled by U.S. senators at a hearing about the lack of competition in the ticketing industry after the company’s problems managing the sale of tickets for Taylor Swift's upcoming concert tour.
