A member of a Tucson church admitted he molested a boy. The pastor said he knew and never went to the police, flouting state laws that mandate reporting of such incidents.
Editor’s note: On Sept. 16, 2024, Lee Enterprises Public Journalism Team reporter Emily Hamer and Arizona Daily Star journalist Tim Steller interviewed Jose Mora. He is a member of Golden Dawn Tabernacle who had been accused by a young man named Philip of sexually abusing him when Philip was 11. Mora speaks and understands English, but is better at his native Spanish, so in the interview, Hamer asked questions in English, Steller translated to Spanish, Mora answered in Spanish, and Steller translated back to English for Hamer.
After the interview, a third-party translator was hired to produce an English transcript of the Spanish portions of the interview. We’ve identified the comments and questions of Hamer and Steller as “Reporters” in the transcript for simplicity and removed phrases such as “Go ahead, Emily” for clarity.
Lee Enterprises and the Star also removed the first name of a boy Mora said he bought underwear for and a question about an alleged incident that lacked corroborating information. These redactions were made to protect the privacy of individuals the newspaper team has not been able to speak with.
Trigger warning: This audio recording and transcript contain descriptions of sexual violence against children.
Listen to the interview:
Read the transcript:
Reporters: Before we start we wanted to ask you how well do you grasp English or understand English? That is, I will translate, but I just wanted -
Mora: Yes, I understand it more or less.
Reporters: Okay. Do you listen to the church services in English or in Spanish?
Mora: In English.
Reporters: Okay, very well very well. Then Emily is going to start. Okay. There is a person named Philip — you know him, I think — that has accused you of sexually assaulting him when he was eleven years old.
Mora: Aha.
Reporters: He has accused you of forcing him to have oral and genital contact, touching him without consent — Uh, without his, uh well, without his agreement and penetrating Philip with his fingers and other sexual contact that he did not want. Uh, are these accusations true, or, do you understand why he would have said such a thing regarding you?
Mora: Look, to start, I would like to know where the information is going to go.
Reporters: Uh, it is for the Arizona Daily Star and other newspapers in the Lee Enterprises network.
Mora: Are there more people of the church involved?
Reporters: Do you want to elaborate on that point? You say there are more people involved?
Mora: No no no, I want to know if there are more people.
Reporters: Oh. People where? Accusing you?
Mora: No no no no no, not accusing me. Because look, I don't want to talk too much because many of those things, some things are lies and others are exaggerations. I don't want to talk about that point.
Mora: They are people that I love and I pray for them every day, and I have nothing against them but there are things that are not true. That I don’t even want to discuss.
Reporters: So you are denying what Philip says or you just don't want to talk about this matter?
Mora: As I tell you, many are exaggerations and there are lies there too.
Reporters: I mean, is there something specific about what Philip has said that is lies or exaggerations?
Mora: The majority.
Reporters: Can you be more specific? That is, what is a lie and what is not? What is an exaggeration and what is not?
Mora: I don’t want to talk about this point but the truth is I didn't abuse him. I didn't abuse him.
Reporters: Have you spoken to the pastor, Brother Isaac (Noriega) regarding this?
Mora: Yes.
Reporters: What did you guys talk about? What did Pastor Isaac advise you?
Mora: I did talk to him about what happened, and he told me to be careful. Yeah.
Reporters: When you say “what happened,” what do you mean/what are you referring to?
Mora: The things that were accusing me (of).
Reporters: So, something happened, but it's not what Philip accuses you of doing?
Mora: Exactly.
Alleged sexual abuse of minors has been covered up in a Tucson church for decades, an investigation finds. The pastor dismissed allegations, blamed victims and screamed at police.
Reporters: When we spoke to Pastor Isaac, he told us that Philip touched you in a sexual way and you touched him in a sexual way, and then you touched each other. Something like that. That Philip initiated the contact. Do you think that’s a better description of what really happened?
Mora: Okay, my pastor told her that, I told him that in confidence. I don't want to talk about Philip or his dad or his mom because as I said they are people I love. I love Philipito, Philip, too, but in reality he had a spirit and he provoked me, but there was never sex, there was never a finger and oh well, I fell into the trap. But he had something, he started it. As I say, I don't want to talk about him because they are people that I love and I don't want to [unintelligible] their lives.
Reporters: When you, as you said, fell into the trap, um, how old was Philip?
Mora: Um, I don't remember. Eleven or twelve. I know I was — I was an adult and I'm the fool who made the mistake but he was the one who started touching me and put my hand on his butt and stuff like that. Yeah.
Reporters: When you say that Philip put his hand on Philip's body, where on his body? That is, in what part of your body? Did you say something about the butt?
Mora: Yes, he grabbed my hand and put my hand on his butt. And then he started grabbing me.
Reporters: And then you touched him where?
Mora: Well, the same. We continued doing the same. We touched each other.
Reporters: Where? Touching where? In the genital area or what?
Mora: In both parts.
Reporters: So, the butt and the genital area?
Mora: Mhm.
Reporters: So what happened when you talked to the pastor about this, that there was this incident where you touched each other?
Mora: Well, they accused me first with the pastor, the father. Afterwards I talked to him and explained to him and he told me “Well, be careful.” I - He told me “Talk to the dad, do things right, let's see what they want to do.” I talked to the dad, he talked to me, everything was fine. He tells me “I forgive you. Everything's fine. No problem."
Reporters: Philip's father told us that in addition to what we've already talked about, that you admitted that there was oral contact between you. That is, you putting your mouth on Philip's penis and Philip putting his mouth on your penis. Is this true?
Mora: No. As I said, there is a lot of exaggeration and that is not true. And I told Philip's dad, “Rest assured, we never had sexual contact. That I will tell you.”
Reporters: Sensual, you said? Or sexual?
Mora: Sexual. Of no kind.
Reporters: After this, did you write a letter expressing that you were sorry to the church?
Mora: Yes.
Reporters: Did Pastor Isaac discipline you or give you any consequences for this? Or what happened next?
Mora: Well, I received a lot of discipline. A lot of discipline. They didn’t all know. Yeah.
Reporters: What kind of discipline or what kind of consequence?
Mora: To begin, Philip's parents talked a lot about me. At church, many church brothers stopped talking to me. I had to separate myself from many people and it was hard for me because I knew that many things were lies but I didn't want to put them in a bad light. I never wanted to talk about them because as I say, they are people that I love. And I've never liked defending myself either.
Jose Mora is pictured with other members of his church, the Golden Dawn Tabernacle. Mora has been accused of molesting an 11-year-old boy in the church in 2012. Faces of those other than Mora have been blocked at the request of the photo owner.
Reporters: What kind of steps did you take to earn the, um, forgiveness of the church?
Mora: Well, asking for forgiveness and trying to live life the best I can. Me and my family.
Reporters: Has something like this happened before Philip, with you? I mean, have you been involved in something like this before?
Mora: Uh, no, well. That was in Mexico, in my past I was abused.
Reporters: In what way were you abused?
Mora: Sexually.
Reporters: From whom?
Mora: Family members, as always.
Reporters: How old were you when this sexual abuse occurred?
Mora: About ten.
Reporters: There are other young people, people who were young members of the church, young men, who say that you touched them in a way that made them uncomfortable, to say the least. In two specific cases, there was one who said that you would rub his leg during church services when you were sitting next to each other. And another young man said that you kissed him on the cheek when he was — sorry, go ahead if you have any comments.
Mora: Well, I don't know about the leg. We sat together. In church we sat together in the pew, I don't know what it was — and the other one on the cheek. There was a young man that I loved very much and yes, we hugged each other all the time but it wasn't a kiss of malice. It was a kiss like that of a father and son. I saw it, he loved me like a father.
Reporters: How do you feel now that you are hearing from us that these men who were young now say that this activity made them uncomfortable?
Mora: Okay, then. More than anything, it's embarrassing. I have 3 children and I know that I did things that were wrong but for me I feel like I was stupid.
Reporters: Are you sorry for making the boys, including Philip, feel uncomfortable. Do you understand the question? That is, do you feel?
Mora: Yes, I understand. Yes.
Reporters: Okay.
Mora: Look, I feel like I'd rather he grab a gun and shoot me… I'd rather have Philip come and shoot me than have him talking about me.
Reporters: There is another case that Luis Santos warned us about. Luis said that one time his younger brother went to your house and when he returned he was carrying another pair of boxers or underwear.
Mora: No, that’s a lie. No, that is a lie because I spoke to his father because his father referred me to this. That little boy went with me to the store and he chose some — and it was his birthday, I gave him a gift — I told him ... “grab what you want” And he grabbed those underwear. I just paid for them. It was all I did.
Reporters: Was it something like, special? I mean, he chose underwear?
Mora: Yes, they just underwear, but those that are — What are they called? The ones with long legs, I don't know what they're called.
Reporters: Emily is trying to understand. Did you buy him a new pair of underwear or? She doesn't understand.
Mora: It was a package that he wanted. I just paid it for him, he chose it. He was with me in the store, he chose, I paid for it and that was his birthday gift that I gave him. His father talked to me, why did I buy him that, and I told him “He wanted them.”
...
Mora: These people have left the church. These people are upset with us.
Reporters: Why are they upset, like you said?
Mora: I don't know. They should be happy, they are not in church. They don't want to be in church. I don’t know.
Reporters: Regarding Philip, he said that he was very traumatized, he had nightmares for a long time. Uh, this incident affected him a lot. Do you have anything you would like to say to him?
Mora: Just that I love him and I pray for him. For his soul.
Reporters: To be sure, Philip said you penetrated him with your finger. We are trying to be very specific. Do you deny this?
Mora: Yes, because I told him that I had never had penetration with Philipito.
Reporters: Regarding Philip, how many times were there such incidents of touching each other?
Mora: Hmm, I don't remember but there were a few occasions, maybe, 4.
Reporters: And these incidents occurred at your house?
Mora: Yes.
Reporters: He said that there were incidents that occurred in the shower when you and he were in the shower together. Do you remember this?
Mora: Actually, I was taking a bath with my children and he was in another bathroom. Because my children were little, I had them in the bathtub. And he called me to the bathroom and I went to the bathroom. And he started touching me.
Reporters: Philip said the first incident occurred when you were in a bedroom and you put your hands down his pants. Is this true?
Mora: No, the first incident we were playing on the carpet at my house and he started touching me.
Reporters: So you're saying that Philip initiated that incident, right?
Mora: Exactly.
Reporters: Are you saying that Philip also started the other incident in the shower because he's the one who called you in and to come over?
Mora: Yes.
Reporters: Were you naked when you entered the shower?
Mora: Yes, because I was bathing the children in the tub.
Reporters: Philip says there was another incident that happened in the shower. In other words, it was not just that incident, but another. Emily asks if in this second case, Philip asked you to get into the shower.
Mora: Well, as far as I remember, there was never another incident. That's all I remember.
Reporters: In the incident that you do remember, do you remember that you hugged and kissed in the shower?
Mora: That did happen.
Reporters: You mentioned maybe 4 incidents. If you don't remember that incident, the second shower incident that Emily mentioned, what do you remember that we didn't mention?
Mora: I remember one time in bed, but I don't [unintelligible] with clothes. We were playing with my children and he covered himself and started grabbing me — And I covered myself and he started grabbing me and we started grabbing each other.
Reporters: You said in the bed?
Mora: Yeah. In my children's room.
Reporters: So, he grabbed you in the genital area?
Mora: Yes. We were covered and he started grabbing me and so did I. We were with clothes.
Reporters: Okay, when you talk about the way Philip initiated these contacts, are you blaming Philip, or do you think you have the responsibility?
Mora: No, I am not accusing anyone. Like I said, I don't want to accuse anyone. I'm not saying it happened. He was a child, I was an adult. I had to know better. So, we are both responsible. I know I was the adult.
Tim: You said before that you did not sexually abuse Philip but you did confirm that you touched each other's genitals. So, you touched Philip's genitals. You don't consider that to be sexual abuse?
Mora: Eh, what I mean is that he was saying that I penetrated him with my penis and my finger. That never happened.
Reporters: Have you penetrated any other child with your fingers or your penis?
Mora: I don't know what to answer there because, no. I don't know if they're/you’re* setting a trap for me or I don't know what. I don't know what to say anymore. Because there have been so many people accusing me that I don't know.
*Note from third-party translator: When he says “me están jugando una trampa,” it’s unclear if he’s talking about external people (other people/victims accusing him) or about the journalists interviewing him setting the trap.
Reporters: We are not talking about accusations in this case. We're not talking about accusations here. It's a simple question. That is, we’re asking yes or no if you have penetrated other children with your fingers or your penis. We are asking without accusation, just asking you.
Mora: Mhm. I prefer not to answer that question.
Reporters: Is there anything, any other comment that you would like to make right now regarding this or anything else?
Mora: No, I’m fine.
Jose Mora eats dinner with members of his church, the Golden Dawn Tabernacle, at one of their homes in 2002. Mora has been accused of molesting an 11-year-old boy in the church in 2012. Faces of those other than Mora have been blocked at the request of the photo owner.
